Questions: How do we design for extreme conditions and resource challenges? Is that for Mars or Earth?
Guest: Alfredo Muñoz, Architect; Founder; Onteco; Founder, ABIBOO Studio; Chair for Memberships of the Technical Committee of Space Architecture at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics
Digital twins? Space architecture? Alfredo Munoz combines astrophysics and architecture to let us pilot new ways of building in VR on Earth . . . as practice for Mars . . . to improve how we live on Earth. He’ll share elements of a digital twin of a compound in Mars that you can engage with here on Earth to try out better ways of working, living, and creating. He also shares his own journey through innovative architecture and bringing those skills and insights to connect with space architecture and collaborative virtual reality.
Bio
Alfredo Muñoz is the founder of Onteco and ABIBOO Studio. He is also the Chair for Memberships of the Technical Committee of Space Architecture at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics.
Mr. Muñoz has been considered the youngest among the most influential Spanish Architects and the youngest European Leaders (EYL40).
His clients range from Fortune Global 500 conglomerates to governments to private high-net-worth individuals on five continents.
Alfredo has been teaching and speaking at elite Universities, and his work has been featured in media outlets across the world.
He holds a Master’s in Architecture from the Polytechnic University of Madrid and a Master’s of Advanced Studies in Architecture from BarcelonaTech.
Mentioned Links:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alfredo-munoz/
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/AbibooArchs
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ABIBOOStudio/
- ABIBOO YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAKg_w7V0PquCiyCCO8mdvA
- Onteco https://onteco.com/
- ABIBOO – https://abiboo.com/
- Mars Society and the Mars Desert Research Station – MDRS – https://mdrs.marssociety.org/
- Nüwa City: https://abiboo.com/projects/nuwa/ – https://vimeo.com/468344643
- Space Analogs in Israel – D-Mars 2021 – AMADEE-20 Mars simulation, led by the Israel Space Agency and the Austrian Space Forum,https://www.israel21c.org/astronauts-carry-out-space-mission-in-israeli-desert/
- NASA Analogs – https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/563511main_NASA-Analog-Missions-06-2011_508.pdf
- Friends of Europe / EU – 40 People Below 40 – https://www.friendsofeurope.org/insights/read-all-about-it-the-names-of-the-eyl40-class-of-2019-are-finally-out/
- Dr. Guillem Anglada-Escude and Proxima B – https://www.alphr.com/space/1004184/proxima-b-scientists-discover-a-new-earth-20-just-four-light-years-away/
- Oxford Union Debate – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wAP0mVpPlw
{{bio-and-show-links}}
Transcript
I am so glad to have you on this show.
Gigi Johnson:I have people in this show that I've known for a long time or
Gigi Johnson:are in spaces I know really well. And I'm happy to say that
Gigi Johnson:you are neither. That we've met fairly recently. And you're . .
Gigi Johnson:.
Alfredo Munoz:I'm one of the lucky ones.
Gigi Johnson:And you're in a series of spaces -- pun intended
Gigi Johnson:-- that I other than having a father who was an architect when
Gigi Johnson:he was alive, I have been an observer, and not a participant.
Gigi Johnson:Can you share a little bit what you are doing now in your two
Gigi Johnson:main fields of adventures?
Alfredo Munoz:Perfect. So we have been working for 10 years
Alfredo Munoz:in the field of architecture across the world -- we will talk
Alfredo Munoz:more about it. We have projects in five different continents.
Alfredo Munoz:And for five years, I have been working also in the field of
Alfredo Munoz:space architecture. And that area is connecting recently with
Alfredo Munoz:other aspects of technology, like blockchain and virtual
Alfredo Munoz:reality. We are currently developing a simulation of how a
Alfredo Munoz:future society will be on Mars. We are calling it the
Alfredo Munoz:Futureverse. But -- while the metaverse is creating a digital
Alfredo Munoz:reality of something that does not exist, we are proposing the
Alfredo Munoz:Futureverse as an opportunity to create in the digital field,
Alfredo Munoz:something that is going to be built in the future, where
Alfredo Munoz:society not only will able to interact among themselves, but
Alfredo Munoz:also provide relevant feedback for that digital twin to
Alfredo Munoz:continue iterating and getting better. So when it's time to get
Alfredo Munoz:built, and to actually execute it, we have all the know how
Alfredo Munoz:feedback from the community. So we'll talk more about that. So
Alfredo Munoz:two fields, architecture, technology, space architecture,
Alfredo Munoz:and Futureverse.
Gigi Johnson:Wow . . .
Alfredo Munoz:She's all somehow connected. That's . . . .
Gigi Johnson:And you threw in Digital Twin. And all that.
Gigi Johnson:Okay, so who are the "we" of this? Because this is not just
Gigi Johnson:you and a mouse in your pocket? So your architecture company?
Gigi Johnson:What are they? Who are they? Where are they? How do you have
Gigi Johnson:so many things happening in so many cities?
Alfredo Munoz:So I'm the founder of ABIBOO Studio, which
Alfredo Munoz:is the architectural practice. We have their headquarters in
Alfredo Munoz:New York, we have offices in Miami, where I am now. And also
Alfredo Munoz:we have offices in Madrid when I'm where I am originally from,
Alfredo Munoz:I'm in India. And then Onteco is the company that we have a base
Alfredo Munoz:here in the US that is focusing in the Futureverse and in that
Alfredo Munoz:simulation that we were talking about.
Alfredo Munoz:And so that we don't think oh, yes, yes, to be sure that I
Alfredo Munoz:fully answer your question. We have been working for more than
Alfredo Munoz:two years, with a global scientists from different
Alfredo Munoz:fields, experts in the fields of life supersystem, geology,
Alfredo Munoz:planet . . . planetary geology, astronautics in order to ensure
Alfredo Munoz:that all the ideas that we have in that simulation are actually
Alfredo Munoz:backed up by science. And I'm sure we will be talking a lot
Alfredo Munoz:about it, because I'm very passionate, I think it will be
Alfredo Munoz:of great relevance to the audience.
Gigi Johnson:Okay, so these are, these are two really
Gigi Johnson:different endeavors that are not different, that they're very
Gigi Johnson:much of an overlap, because, at least in my perception of your
Gigi Johnson:architecture, it's very forward thinking and very futures
Gigi Johnson:relevant. Can you talk a bit about ABIBOO -- is that the
Gigi Johnson:right pronunciation?
Alfredo Munoz:ABIBOO. Yeah, we ABIBOO means that we didn't have
Alfredo Munoz:creativity. So AB is the first two letters of the Latin
Alfredo Munoz:alphabet. And as a Westerner, obviously, my culture comes from
Alfredo Munoz:from that background. But I lived in Japan for a long time.
Alfredo Munoz:And we will probably talk also later about that. And IBOO means
Alfredo Munoz:creativity in Japanese. And when I started my architectural
Alfredo Munoz:practice, after working with some very top architects across
Alfredo Munoz:the world, I decided to come up with a name that represented
Alfredo Munoz:that the vision for innovation and the beginning of creativity
Alfredo Munoz:is an acronym that is representing the name of ABIBOO
Alfredo Munoz:Studio, which means again, the beginning of creativity.
Gigi Johnson:Wow. And then ... that ... the group of scientists
Gigi Johnson:you are working in, they're, they're all over the world. And
Gigi Johnson:so you're with a large group of scientists . . .
Alfredo Munoz:Yes, they're all over the world. They're mainly
Alfredo Munoz:American and Europeans. But we have a team also in Australia.
Alfredo Munoz:We have again many different types of fields. Not only are
Alfredo Munoz:they not only scientists, but also artists that are working
Alfredo Munoz:with our team, our architectural team, and our theme focus only
Alfredo Munoz:on the Futureverse, in order to create that simulation of a
Alfredo Munoz:future society in a very harsh environment, which is fantastic
Alfredo Munoz:because Mars offers the opportunity to think everything
Alfredo Munoz:from scratch. And by going to Mars, we are facing that we have
Alfredo Munoz:to be extremely efficient with resources, we have to create
Alfredo Munoz:self sufficiency, which is very connected to architecture. And
Alfredo Munoz:at the same time, we need to ensure that we collaborate
Alfredo Munoz:because an extreme environment like Mars is requiring that we
Alfredo Munoz:work together. Otherwise we won't survive. And within that,
Alfredo Munoz:all of that is bringing huge amount of opportunity not only
Alfredo Munoz:to envision a near future on Mars, but also to have insights,
Alfredo Munoz:which will be very relevant for making Earth a better place --
Alfredo Munoz:connected to climate change, social inequality and many other
Alfredo Munoz:aspects. That again, thanks to the learning that we are getting
Alfredo Munoz:by creating that digital twin, we are already applying on
Alfredo Munoz:Earth, with science and changes in the habits and architecture,
Alfredo Munoz:materials, and some of the technologies that we have been
Alfredo Munoz:developing for over two years.
Gigi Johnson:So you've mentioned digital twin twice.
Gigi Johnson:What do you think is a digital twin for those who have not
Gigi Johnson:played in that space before?
Alfredo Munoz:So these digital twin is a concept that is almost
Alfredo Munoz:like a real time, a replica of something that exists in
Alfredo Munoz:reality, but that exists only in the digital environment. The
Alfredo Munoz:advantage of creating a digital twin is that we can test things
Alfredo Munoz:digitally first, and see what works and what does not work. So
Alfredo Munoz:once we are actually ready to build it, we can be sure that it
Alfredo Munoz:works well. This is common in engineering. So once we want for
Alfredo Munoz:example, to simulate how a rocket is going to perform in
Alfredo Munoz:space, we create a digital twin -- a replica of that rocket --
Alfredo Munoz:put it under the conditions that are going to be in space and
Alfredo Munoz:then see if everything works well or not before doing an
Alfredo Munoz:actual prototype. And then testing the prototype. In
Alfredo Munoz:architecture is very typical as well. I mean, we have been
Alfredo Munoz:creating digital twins since the 60s. But we didn't call it like
Alfredo Munoz:that that term was a invented by NASA and it but the concept of
Alfredo Munoz:creating a replica of something that is going to be existing in
Alfredo Munoz:the near future is something that has been in our society for
Alfredo Munoz:quite a while.
Gigi Johnson:And I would say maybe one of the elements of it,
Gigi Johnson:which I find fascinating, looking at it more from a human
Gigi Johnson:system side, is it's not just the as sometimes is phrased
Gigi Johnson:"built environment." It's not just the hard walls replicated
Gigi Johnson:in a digital virtual space. It's also the human interaction and
Gigi Johnson:people and . . . and behaviors that around it are in a lot of
Gigi Johnson:the newer digital twin models are just cool building --where
Gigi Johnson:do we put the walls and where did the cars go? But it's really
Gigi Johnson:looking then at anticipated human behavior.
Alfredo Munoz:Totally agree with you and that's indeed how
Alfredo Munoz:Onteco Mars and the Futureverse started. So originally, when we
Alfredo Munoz:were envisioning, creating ways to provide self-sufficient
Alfredo Munoz:solutions on Mars, with the scientists, our mission was to
Alfredo Munoz:come up with ideas that were actually relevant for a future
Alfredo Munoz:settlement on Mars. But then once we got a lot of attention
Alfredo Munoz:from the media -- we released the first batch of designs
Alfredo Munoz:around a year and a half ago -- it has been all over the place.
Alfredo Munoz:The first batch of designs were called Nüwa. So it has been in
Alfredo Munoz:BBC, CNN Business Insider, National Geographic -- almost
Alfredo Munoz:all the major media talked about our solutions. So then we were
Alfredo Munoz:working closely with Mars Society, which is one of the
Alfredo Munoz:biggest organizations related to research and investigation about
Alfredo Munoz:Mars to do a space analog. The concept of a space analog is
Alfredo Munoz:similar to the idea of a digital twin but in real life. So a
Alfredo Munoz:space analog simulates conditions that are very
Alfredo Munoz:extreme, like what will a astronauts will face on Mars or
Alfredo Munoz:in low gravity environments, and that happens in a safe
Alfredo Munoz:environment. So once the astronauts or the people that
Alfredo Munoz:are going to be in such environment are there, if
Alfredo Munoz:something goes wrong, you're not risking their lives, there are a
Alfredo Munoz:lot of space analogues in . . . on Earth. The biggest one is
Alfredo Munoz:MDRS [Mars Desert Research Station], which is indeed owned
Alfredo Munoz:by Mars Society, in the deserts of Utah. But there are some in
Alfredo Munoz:Canada, there are some in Israel, there are some space
Alfredo Munoz:analogs below the ocean to simulate what will happen in
Alfredo Munoz:low-gravity environments. But when we were actually working
Alfredo Munoz:with Mars Society, we were thinking, well, the challenges
Alfredo Munoz:that we have if we want to do some of those ideas that we
Alfredo Munoz:propose for a large settlement on Mars, is that we will not be
Alfredo Munoz:able to replicate the social relationships. We can replicate
the physical model:we can create like a small building in
the physical model:the deserts of Utah and see how people will interact with that
the physical model:physical architectural environment that we ambition for
the physical model:Mars.
the physical model:But the complexity of the social aspects, were not going to be
Gigi Johnson:So you kind of took us a little down the road
Gigi Johnson:able to be analyzed because you cannot build a city on Mars on
Gigi Johnson:Earth. First, because the cost will be too high. Second,
Gigi Johnson:because you don't simulate the challenges of a harsh
Gigi Johnson:environment and how that a difficulties will affect the
Gigi Johnson:social interactions. And that's when technology came into place.
Gigi Johnson:of how, how an architect ended up in the space side of life.
Gigi Johnson:Before that happened, we were quite involved with the
Gigi Johnson:architectural practice with virtual reality. It is not
Gigi Johnson:uncommon for ... for architects to use highly immersive tools to
Gigi Johnson:provide an experience of how architecture is going to be. We
Gigi Johnson:were also quite involved with digital art, we did a
Gigi Johnson:collaboration with Louis Vutton. They asked us to reinvent a how
Gigi Johnson:a trunk could be in the near future. So we propose the next
Gigi Johnson:But what was the bridge? Did they knock on your door? Did you
Gigi Johnson:frontiers of travel as the space travel and the digital travel.
Gigi Johnson:Right. So we have some experience with digital art and
Gigi Johnson:digital [fields] and blockchain and NFT's. So we thought that
Gigi Johnson:the opportunities of merging those type of state-of-the-art
Gigi Johnson:technologies with space architecture could be an
Gigi Johnson:opportunity to create a space analog that simulates a
Gigi Johnson:complexities of living on Mars, thanks to technology on a larger
Gigi Johnson:knock on their door? Were you hanging out in outer space
Gigi Johnson:scale. And that's where community comes into play.
Gigi Johnson:That's what you were indicating the digital twin can allow not
Gigi Johnson:only to understand and being a highly immersive environment,
Gigi Johnson:how we are going to be living in the future in a large
Gigi Johnson:colonization or in a large settlement. It can be on Mars,
Gigi Johnson:it can be anywhere, it can be even in the future here on
Gigi Johnson:endeavors for years and science fiction -- how did you kind of
Gigi Johnson:Earth, but also how that community is going to be
Gigi Johnson:interacting among themselves. And that's where the technology
Gigi Johnson:that the metaverse is bringing can be very applied to actually
Gigi Johnson:make a future a better place, on Earth a better place, thanks to
Gigi Johnson:those learnings, that we are going to learn by interacting
Gigi Johnson:and learning from a digital twin.
Gigi Johnson:come together as this sort of intersection of sort of built
Gigi Johnson:spaces and new environments?
Alfredo Munoz:So it comes from luck, as they say, in India,
Alfredo Munoz:destiny, and it comes from a lot of passion from my side, since
Alfredo Munoz:I'm a child on design and space. So when I was in high school,
Alfredo Munoz:and I was debating between studying astrophysics or
Alfredo Munoz:studying architecture, since I was a kid, I wanted to go in the
Alfredo Munoz:field of architecture. But then, when I started studying math and
Alfredo Munoz:physics, I was very passionate about space. So I was having a
Alfredo Munoz:debate, I decided to continue the path of architecture. But I
Alfredo Munoz:was always very interested on educating myself a lot about the
Alfredo Munoz:field related to space, travel, the space exploration, physics,
Alfredo Munoz:So in 2019, I was very lucky that there is an organization
Alfredo Munoz:etc.
Alfredo Munoz:called Friends of Europe, that is connected to the European
Alfredo Munoz:Union. And every year, they choose 40 People below 40 years
Alfredo Munoz:old, that they consider relevant in their fields. So it's a
Alfredo Munoz:highly diverse group, from people in politics, arts,
Alfredo Munoz:science, and I was the lucky guy that I'm the only architect in
Alfredo Munoz:the group. But the opportunity also in that group is that they
Alfredo Munoz:once you are part of the group, we meet three times a year in
Alfredo Munoz:Europe, and then we meet with all the other alumni from that
Alfredo Munoz:group, even if they're older than 40. So it allows for a
Alfredo Munoz:powerful debates of ideas about how we can create a solution for
Alfredo Munoz:Europe to become a better place and for the world to become a
Alfredo Munoz:better place. So in 2019, I was in London, with [Dr.] Guillem
Alfredo Munoz:Anglada[-Escude]; he's the scientist that headed the
Alfredo Munoz:discovery of Proxima B, which is the closest exoplanet from
Alfredo Munoz:Earth. And then we were [speaking in] the Spanish as
Alfredo Munoz:well. So we were talking and he was telling me his biggest
Alfredo Munoz:passion, where he was a good was architecture. And then I was
Alfredo Munoz:telling him that my biggest passion was astrophysics. So we
Alfredo Munoz:were debating and we were talking "Why don't we come up
Alfredo Munoz:with a group of scientists to find self-sufficient settlements
Alfredo Munoz:off world?" And that is something that connected very
Alfredo Munoz:well with the work that we were doing in in my architectural
Alfredo Munoz:practice because we have been focusing since I started ABIBOO
Alfredo Munoz:Studio in 2010 in self-sufficient larger scale
Alfredo Munoz:settlements, especially in emerging countries. We have
Alfredo Munoz:designed three entire series in India, a lot of a proposals that
Alfredo Munoz:require self-sufficiency. So obviously, the interest of
Alfredo Munoz:sustainability, and self-sufficiency was now coming
Alfredo Munoz:together in my personal interest about space. And there was a
Alfredo Munoz:fantastic match because Guillem was telling me he was hugely
Alfredo Munoz:passionate about architecture, and vice versa. So we started
Alfredo Munoz:putting together the team. And we started again to visualize
Alfredo Munoz:how we could find those solutions for self sufficiency
Alfredo Munoz:off-world.
Alfredo Munoz:We can with the moon as a first step, but the advantage and
Alfredo Munoz:disadvantage of the moon is that is very close from Earth. So you
Alfredo Munoz:don't need to rely on self sufficiency because you can have
Alfredo Munoz:things by come forth from Earth to the moon very easily. The
Alfredo Munoz:challenge that we have with Mars is that due to the distance, we
Alfredo Munoz:only have a window of opportunity of one month, every
Alfredo Munoz:two years to send things back and forth, which means that in
Alfredo Munoz:order to create a permanent settlement on Mars, you need to
Alfredo Munoz:do it with local resources. You cannot rely on materials from
Alfredo Munoz:Earth. And that completely changes the question, right? The
Alfredo Munoz:moment you start to think that you need to create a permanent
Alfredo Munoz:settlement for people not only to survive, but to thrive in a
Alfredo Munoz:place where there is nothing but there are actual resources like
Alfredo Munoz:minerals and water that are critical to create a long-term
Alfredo Munoz:settlement.
Alfredo Munoz:That's when a lot of interesting ideas are starting to come into
Alfredo Munoz:place. And again, we released the batch of designs, and then
Alfredo Munoz:we were envisioning how we can communicate all of that in an
Alfredo Munoz:immersive manner on how we can bring some of the other
Alfredo Munoz:technologies that we were bringing in the architectural
Alfredo Munoz:team, again, like virtual reality and experience with
Alfredo Munoz:digital art and blockchain and NFTs. And some of the things
Alfredo Munoz:that are now very connected to the metaverse, which is mainly
Alfredo Munoz:coming from the gaming background, our background was
Alfredo Munoz:more about finding a solution for solving problems of
Alfredo Munoz:connected to climate change and social inequality, and using
Alfredo Munoz:Mars as an excuse to do so. And while doing that, we think that
Alfredo Munoz:we have found very appealing ways to actually live on Mars.
Alfredo Munoz:And Elon Musk and some of the other companies that are
Alfredo Munoz:actually exploring very hard into the transportation side of
Alfredo Munoz:the space exploration are going to take us to Mars. But we think
Alfredo Munoz:so far, we have been the teams that have been focusing more
Alfredo Munoz:into how are we actually going to live there. Once we get
Alfredo Munoz:there. Thanks to hopefully SpaceX in the next couple of
Alfredo Munoz:years, that technology will be ready to start considering going
Alfredo Munoz:to Mars. But then how is the environment that is going to be
Alfredo Munoz:there? Nobody so far has been focusing with the level of
Alfredo Munoz:intensity and multidisciplinary approach that we have. And
Alfredo Munoz:within that, that's quite exciting. And again, that
Alfredo Munoz:simulation on a digital twin is the first step to actually test
Alfredo Munoz:things out and experience how it will be so we can iterate and
Alfredo Munoz:make improvements and check it out.
Gigi Johnson:So when you create a new city somewhere, you're
Gigi Johnson:making assumptions on sort of socio-politics, who is there,
Gigi Johnson:how they interrelate, and what human services are there, and
Gigi Johnson:who makes money off the Human Services, what the kind of the
Gigi Johnson:ecology economy is, but also what the ecology economy is with
Gigi Johnson:that place and the rest of the world. So are you assuming then
Gigi Johnson:in the design for Mars, that, that the external ecology is
Gigi Johnson:really one of mining and extraction? Is one of . . .
Gigi Johnson:scientific research? I hesitate to say this, military outpost?
Gigi Johnson:You know, is it assuming that that external relations, or an
Gigi Johnson:economics of maybe tourism? Or what's the assumptions on what
Gigi Johnson:you're building? And then . . . what is . . . I mean, I tend to
Gigi Johnson:I'm a long time sci fi nut, and I always sit around with my
Gigi Johnson:husband going, "Okay, now the economics of . . . how does this
Gigi Johnson:person get paid? And then where does the food come from? And who
Gigi Johnson:pays for the food and who's doing the, you know, who's
Gigi Johnson:cooking? Who's . . .? So what are the assumptions you're
Gigi Johnson:making? Is it more of a socialistic model, free market
Gigi Johnson:model? And then what's the economics of this -- what --
Gigi Johnson:30,000 person outpost?
Gigi Johnson:Fantastic questions. The truth is that in architecture, we are
Gigi Johnson:used to listen to the society and to understand what they need
Gigi Johnson:in that particular location. So when we go to a create a city in
Gigi Johnson:Philippines. Or we go and create the city or in India, we
Gigi Johnson:talk to the politicians, we talk to the communities, we
Gigi Johnson:understand what . . . what are intrinsic to their culture, and
Gigi Johnson:then we try to create space around it. The challenge on Mars
Gigi Johnson:is that we don't have Martians yet.
Gigi Johnson:So how are you figuring out future Martians, what they're
Gigi Johnson:going to need, want et cetera?
Alfredo Munoz:So that's an interesting point, because the
Alfredo Munoz:future Martians first will need to adapt to the environment. One
Alfredo Munoz:thing that we know is that here on Earth is very easy for us to
Alfredo Munoz:change the environment around us to accommodate it to our
Alfredo Munoz:lifestyle, and that will not be possible on Mars. So the level
Alfredo Munoz:of a extreme environments that we have over there is going to
Alfredo Munoz:force us to adapt much more to what is around it. So science,
Alfredo Munoz:there are plays even more critical role than we have here.
Alfredo Munoz:And that's why working with so many different types of
Alfredo Munoz:scientists to understand what are the conditions.
Alfredo Munoz:But at the same time, that connects to your question about
Alfredo Munoz:politics and economy. How is it going to be over there? The
Alfredo Munoz:truth is, or we don't know. And that's where the digital twin
Alfredo Munoz:comes in very handy, because we can do A/B testing. We can
Alfredo Munoz:create communities that are working under certain political
Alfredo Munoz:and economical models. For example, let's say libertarian
Alfredo Munoz:in the way that we ambition here in the US, and other economy and
Alfredo Munoz:political scenario can be more socialistic, more like north of
Alfredo Munoz:Europe. And then we can see what works and what does not work,
Alfredo Munoz:because we have the same physical conditions. So the
Alfredo Munoz:communities, even the same type of communities, will be able to
Alfredo Munoz:live in city states in the digital twins, and learn what
Alfredo Munoz:can go good, what can go wrong, and detach from the emotions
Alfredo Munoz:that we have here on Earth, with a lot of the ideas about
Alfredo Munoz:politics and economy, and just consider it almost like a
Alfredo Munoz:research opportunity. Right? And that's something that the
Alfredo Munoz:community itself will be able to determine a what is working,
Alfredo Munoz:what is not working. And again, the beautiful part of science is
Alfredo Munoz:that [thesis] data. We analyze the data we see in that digital
Alfredo Munoz:environment, what is the city state that is doing good in
Alfredo Munoz:certain ways, and what the city state is doing good in certain
Alfredo Munoz:other ways to whether we might be able to find answers that we
Alfredo Munoz:might not have been able to realize here on Earth, because
Alfredo Munoz:the conditions are not the same, the culture is not the same,
Alfredo Munoz:it's completely different the culture in the US and the
Alfredo Munoz:culture in Sweden.
Alfredo Munoz:So it's not possible to compare apples with apples, but in the
Alfredo Munoz:digital twin, the same amount of crowd are going to be having the
Alfredo Munoz:opportunity to experience both as scenarios. And again, that's
Alfredo Munoz:where we think that the cities and the culture will grow
Alfredo Munoz:organically. And that will connect to how we were talking
Alfredo Munoz:before that architects listen to their communities and create the
Alfredo Munoz:space around that culture. But because we don't have a cultural
Alfredo Munoz:Mars yet, we are creating the canvas, an initial canvas for a
Alfredo Munoz:community to start understanding those challenges and those
Alfredo Munoz:difficulties that we will have, because of being in a harsh
Alfredo Munoz:environment like Mars, where we will need to be extremely
Alfredo Munoz:efficient with resources, where the economy is going to mainly
Alfredo Munoz:be connected to energy, because you cannot waste energy, you
Alfredo Munoz:cannot waste the space because you don't have that luxury that
Alfredo Munoz:we have here on Earth -- as I was saying before -- of actually
Alfredo Munoz:changing our surroundings to adapt it to our lifestyle right?
Alfredo Munoz:So that is where it will be a back and forth. And that
Alfredo Munoz:connects a lot to the creative process, right? We cannot just
Alfredo Munoz:go linearly, we have to go in one direction, and then it will
Alfredo Munoz:come in the other direction. And then it will become almost like
Alfredo Munoz:a blur of opportunities and situations that we will have to
Alfredo Munoz:develop over time. And thanks to technology, again, the
Alfredo Munoz:advantages are we can create it in a highly immersive
Alfredo Munoz:environment that will be able to simulate fairly well what we
Alfredo Munoz:need to create on Mars.
Gigi Johnson:So here's where I kind of get bollixed up. So I
Gigi Johnson:am -- and not bolloxed up but I'm sort of thinking through the
Gigi Johnson:scenarios. And I'm an old player for Sim City, right? So you go
Gigi Johnson:into Sim City and then you decide where the roads go. And
Gigi Johnson:then ... the the non player character elements would say,
Gigi Johnson:Ah, she put her out there, we're now going to go do this. And
Gigi Johnson:just like I didn't anticipate this now I've got to build....
Gigi Johnson:So there's an iterative build concept. But I'm assuming that
Gigi Johnson:there's sort of a non player character reactive element that
Gigi Johnson:is then doing something based on my actions. If I have a digital
Gigi Johnson:twin, though, am I assuming that I'm going to be having some kind
Gigi Johnson:of a machine learning driven reactive model? Am I going to be
Gigi Johnson:assuming people are living in this space and then behaving as
Gigi Johnson:individuals? Like you might, for people who spent way too
Gigi Johnson:much time in Second Life, which is still around, where they were
Gigi Johnson:then creating economies in it to sell each other stuff? I mean,
Gigi Johnson:to me, it's, it's how do you kind of separate the the
Gigi Johnson:gameplay aspect with what someone actually would do as a
Gigi Johnson:real life series of decisions? Including, you know, do they
Gigi Johnson:have kids? Are they in school? What do they do with their free
Gigi Johnson:time? How would you actually practice that in a digital twin?
Gigi Johnson:And then separately, I have a second question that's related
Gigi Johnson:to it, but to me, it's more, the opportunity is I don't have a
Gigi Johnson:physical limitation. I might have a participant limitation,
Gigi Johnson:number of participants. But to me, this is the opportunity not
Gigi Johnson:for A/B testing but for a Monte Carlo simulation, to be able to
Gigi Johnson:run 200 simulations to see what what percolation has come from
Gigi Johnson:it, what abnormal, interesting creative outputs come from it,
Gigi Johnson:that could then be put into an ...a new design.
Alfredo Munoz:And you mentioned a lot of powerful ideas. So let
Alfredo Munoz:me start with some of the answers to them. So one of the
Alfredo Munoz:ideas that we are envisioning, as I mentioned, is that we will
Alfredo Munoz:create an initial canvas, but the content will have to be
Alfredo Munoz:crowned by the community, right? And that is where it starts to
Alfredo Munoz:be an open opportunity for the community to create solutions
Alfredo Munoz:that they might see fit best of the challenges that the
Alfredo Munoz:simulation is going to propose because again, the simulation is
Alfredo Munoz:going to put into context the lack of resources, the distance
Alfredo Munoz:from Earth, the need to create entire supply chains, because
Alfredo Munoz:the materials have to be created locally on Mars. Which connects
Alfredo Munoz:to another of your questions the economy.
Alfredo Munoz:Then we are envisioning the local currency, we are calling
Alfredo Munoz:it the Power Unit, which is again connected to energy. It's
Alfredo Munoz:a linearly directed to the energy efficiency. And it is
Alfredo Munoz:divided by the carbon footprint. So the economy or the Power
Alfredo Munoz:Unit, the currency, you have the need of being very efficient
Alfredo Munoz:with energy. But at the same time, if you pollute, and you
Alfredo Munoz:create a carbon footprint, that currency is going to be
Alfredo Munoz:devaluated.
Alfredo Munoz:So for example, here on Earth, we have gas. It's very efficient
Alfredo Munoz:-- or oil -- is very efficient, but it leaves a lot of carbon
Alfredo Munoz:footprint, right? So we're working with concepts that by
Alfredo Munoz:taking them into Mars, suddenly, you'll start to relate to things
Alfredo Munoz:that happen on Earth.
Alfredo Munoz:Let's give you an example. On Mars, you will need to buy a
Alfredo Munoz:bottle of water ....or you need, let's say that you need to buy a
Alfredo Munoz:bottle of water and then you pay two Power Units. But suddenly,
Alfredo Munoz:you're hungry and you decide that you want to buy a fancy
Alfredo Munoz:beef burger. But the truth is that a diet on Mars is going to
Alfredo Munoz:be very different because we realize not only on Mars, but
Alfredo Munoz:here on Earth by working with the live super systems team that
Gigi Johnson:In the core economics, then, you're building
Gigi Johnson:eating meat is not very efficient. The amount of energy
Gigi Johnson:that the animals require on the amount of space that animals
Gigi Johnson:require is substantially higher than what the amount of energy
Gigi Johnson:that humans get by eating other substances like vegetables etc
Gigi Johnson:right? So, suddenly when you go on to eat a beef burger, you
Gigi Johnson:will have to pay 2000 Power Units. Just giving you samples.
Gigi Johnson:Suddenly you start to realize like okay, why is this so
Gigi Johnson:expensive? And then you will start to understand in the
Gigi Johnson:digital environment that on Mars we are able to generate no
Gigi Johnson:[farming spaces require for Martians in 1000 square foot.
Gigi Johnson:in payments for the externalities that are then
Gigi Johnson:But here on earth we are using 60,000 square foot per person in
Gigi Johnson:farming and livestock. That is because we are using
Gigi Johnson:technologies that are not a up to the latest technology. So for
Gigi Johnson:example on Mars, we are using aquaponics and hydroponics and
Gigi Johnson:we are eliminating meat as the opportunities for the diet. So
Gigi Johnson:we are including insects; we are including engineered meet. So
Gigi Johnson:pushed off on to other parties here on Earth. So you're
Gigi Johnson:the changes in the lifestyle on Mars are automatically going to
Gigi Johnson:give us insights in the digital environment and that we will
Gigi Johnson:take a community that is interacting with a digital
Gigi Johnson:environment to learn things that we can do here on on Earth in
Gigi Johnson:our day-to-day lives. I don't know, if I answered some of your
Gigi Johnson:questions . . .
Gigi Johnson:actually designing, or at least in the initial contemplation
Gigi Johnson:with how you're setting up the digital twin systems that you're
Gigi Johnson:having, you're trying to have a full cycle price in all of the
Gigi Johnson:lifecycle elements of all products, with limited
Gigi Johnson:resources, not unlimited resources.
Alfredo Munoz:Totally. Because the truth is that the Mars has
Alfredo Munoz:limited resources, say we cannot indeed . . . .many people ask
Alfredo Munoz:me, Well, can we consider Mars has a Plan B? The truth is that
Alfredo Munoz:we cannot, based on the analysis that we have, as of now, the
Alfredo Munoz:entire planet may be able to accommodate a maximum of 3
Alfredo Munoz:million people. And that's already very aggressive. So Mars
Alfredo Munoz:is just going to be a destination for very few people.
Alfredo Munoz:So we have to take care of Earth.
Alfredo Munoz:Again, remember what I was telling you. We want to go to
Alfredo Munoz:Mars to learn things that we can do here different, because by
Alfredo Munoz:asking the question in a different manner, we will be
Alfredo Munoz:getting answers that are different and therefore might
Alfredo Munoz:lead to innovation, right? So the resources are extremely
Alfredo Munoz:limited on Mars. And that simulation has to incorporate
Alfredo Munoz:that same with the economy. But again, the economy there is
Alfredo Munoz:going to be mainly connected with the energy. And if you look
Alfredo Munoz:at on Earth, and you go down to the fundamentals, the economy is
Alfredo Munoz:also based on energy. How much energy does it cost to generate
Alfredo Munoz:things right? The whole supply chain is also about energy . . .
Gigi Johnson:And increasingly water as well, right? So your
Gigi Johnson:water is . . . I mean, some parts of the United States and
Gigi Johnson:other countries don't think too much about it and other parts,
Gigi Johnson:think about it tremendously. And a lot of trade has to do with
Gigi Johnson:actually shipping water in the form of lumber and other . . .
Gigi Johnson:.and foodstuffs.
Gigi Johnson:So what is the assumption in terms of trade for this not
Gigi Johnson:completely [100] percent isolated environment? Is it that
Gigi Johnson:it's anticipated that it will be assigned kind of an extractive
Gigi Johnson:minerals, trade, knowledge industries trade? What will be
Gigi Johnson:the. . . you've talked about a currency within the ecosystem?
Gigi Johnson:Who owns this? Is this a ESOP? Is this a you know, a REIT? Is
Gigi Johnson:this a government-owned facility? Are you anticipating
Gigi Johnson:doing models on each. . . and .... so ... what's the economics
Gigi Johnson:of the . . . the sort of macro entity?
Alfredo Munoz:So the digital twin for . . . for now is under
Alfredo Munoz:development, but we are envisioning to be in the
Alfredo Munoz:blockchain. So again, anyone that will be interested in being
Alfredo Munoz:involved can participate. And indeed we are already having the
Alfredo Munoz:opportunity for people that are familiar with Blockchain to be
Alfredo Munoz:part of the community, right? With owning different assets,
Alfredo Munoz:digital assets inside the digital twin, that are going to
Alfredo Munoz:simulate how we will have Martians owning assets in the
Alfredo Munoz:actual Mars.
Alfredo Munoz:Regarding with trade, we have obviously, they need to create a
Alfredo Munoz:normal entire chain of manufacturing on Mars. We will
Alfredo Munoz:have to do mining; we will have to manufacture. Remember again
Alfredo Munoz:that I was explaining that for a self-sufficient economy to
Alfredo Munoz:actually operate, we need to do everything with local resources.
Alfredo Munoz:So the advantage we have on Mars is that we have a lot of water,
Alfredo Munoz:I mean, we have a lot of water considering that is a very harsh
Alfredo Munoz:environment. So with water and co2, we can obtain carbon, which
Alfredo Munoz:is critical for the elements of life and medicines etc. Then we
Alfredo Munoz:have iron and then we can obtain steel, which can be a critical
Alfredo Munoz:aspect again for construction. So Mars offers the minerals that
Alfredo Munoz:are . . . and the water that are essential to create an entire
Alfredo Munoz:supply chain strategy.
Alfredo Munoz:So it has to be done locally. We cannot rely on using local
Alfredo Munoz:resources from Earth to send them from Mars -- only the very
Alfredo Munoz:basics at the very beginning. And there will be obviously
Alfredo Munoz:trade opportunities between Mars and Earth once the entire
Alfredo Munoz:civilization over there is fully operational.
Alfredo Munoz:For now in the digital environment, we are envisioning
Alfredo Munoz:that blockchain can allow us to create the governance
Alfredo Munoz:opportunity and ownership of assets that can be totally
Alfredo Munoz:traceable, and very difficult to hack. And that's where we are
Alfredo Munoz:also ambition in an economy that can communicate the physical
Alfredo Munoz:wall here on Earth with the digital wall of the Futureverse.
Alfredo Munoz:And that comes again thanks to the Technology connected to a
Alfredo Munoz:blockchain because we can generate that currency that we
Alfredo Munoz:are envisioning in the Futureverse and [on] Mars. And
Alfredo Munoz:once the model is fully operational, there will be
Alfredo Munoz:activity that will be trade inside the ecosystem. And we
Alfredo Munoz:will have the opportunity to convert it into fiat currency,
Alfredo Munoz:into dollars, thanks to the relationships that are already
Alfredo Munoz:happening in the world of crypto with stable coins that allowed
Alfredo Munoz:to convert a crypto asset into a fiat currency like dollars
Alfredo Munoz:through tools and platforms that are allowing to do it.
Alfredo Munoz:Again, what we are envisioning here for ...for Mars and for the
Alfredo Munoz:Futureverse as an ecosystem that is allowing us to travel through
Alfredo Munoz:space and time. We are going to Mars to the future. But the
Alfredo Munoz:objective is to actually live in the now and learn and experience
Alfredo Munoz:and take some of those opportunities to be in the
Alfredo Munoz:digital environment, to apply it in the now on Earth. And that's
Alfredo Munoz:where I think we are envisioning our ecosystem very different to
Alfredo Munoz:the metaverse, which is about gaming and entertainment, which,
Alfredo Munoz:yes, we definitely will include all of that as we move forward
Alfredo Munoz:with the Futureverse. But the goal is to actually use it as a
Alfredo Munoz:tool to make Earth a better place.
Gigi Johnson:So how is this mindset and exploration
Gigi Johnson:impacting your architecture business?
Alfredo Munoz:Pretty much. So for example, one of the things
Alfredo Munoz:that is affecting is on the solutions that we use for
Alfredo Munoz:materials. It's very common in architecture to use concrete
Alfredo Munoz:because it's very cheap. But once we started working with the
Alfredo Munoz:scientists, we realized that these highly [number], not very
Alfredo Munoz:environmentally friendly, we are working with the solutions that
Alfredo Munoz:we are creating on Mars are even more focused on self-sufficiency
Alfredo Munoz:than the work we were doing before.
Alfredo Munoz:So, for example, now, when we create cities and development,
Alfredo Munoz:we are valuing much more the infrastructure. So for example,
Alfredo Munoz:here, it's typical on Earth, that we create the residential
Alfredo Munoz:areas and the manufacturing areas, or the low-impact
Alfredo Munoz:manufacturing areas close to each other. And then we take all
Alfredo Munoz:the infrastructure, all the sewer, all the electricity, out
Alfredo Munoz:of our areas where we usually interact. But the truth is that
Alfredo Munoz:when we were thinking about this on Mars, we realized that
Alfredo Munoz:they're almost like the churches of Mars, right? They are the
Alfredo Munoz:ones that give us that spiritual wellbeing. Because thanks to
Alfredo Munoz:those infrastructures, thanks to the banks that are going to be
Alfredo Munoz:converting co2 into oxygen tanks to the manufacturing elements
Alfredo Munoz:that are transforming the water into drinkable water, thanks to
Alfredo Munoz:the sewer systems that are actually recycling in a model
Alfredo Munoz:that is almost zero waste -- is what is allowing us to be alive
Alfredo Munoz:on Mars, right? So when we are designing townships here, now,
Alfredo Munoz:we start to realize that things that we were given for granted,
Alfredo Munoz:because of years and years of creating urban planning and
Alfredo Munoz:architecture, where the infrastructure is left on the
Alfredo Munoz:side, suddenly, it can become an important part of the experience
Alfredo Munoz:as well. And we are again, thinking a lot about the how
Alfredo Munoz:lifestyle can affect our, our environment, and how carbon
Alfredo Munoz:footprint has a critical role in the long term. And by analyzing
Alfredo Munoz:the economics that we were talking before on Mars, we are
Alfredo Munoz:realizing that they . . . okay your ... your architecture,
Alfredo Munoz:sometimes we have to meet a lot of need. It's not only about
Alfredo Munoz:how you would like to get things done, but how politicians or how
Alfredo Munoz:developers have to implement their vision with the resources
Alfredo Munoz:that they have. Right? So the opportunity we have with Mars is
Alfredo Munoz:that we can actually dream with no limitations on . . . .okay,
Alfredo Munoz:we need to create something that is highly sustainable, but is
Alfredo Munoz:going to be more expensive in the short term, but in 20 years,
Alfredo Munoz:it's going to pay off. That's conversations that we normally
Alfredo Munoz:have on earth, that sometimes you have to find compromises,
Alfredo Munoz:but when we are looking into a more optimistic or a utopical
Alfredo Munoz:scenario, we are learning and we are trying to communicate that
Alfredo Munoz:when developing projects here on Earth as well.
Gigi Johnson:So if somebody, as an individual or an
Gigi Johnson:organization, listens to this and says, "Oh my gosh, I would
Gigi Johnson:like to be involved." How would they become involved? What type
Gigi Johnson:of involvement do you need now? And then what type of . . . what
Gigi Johnson:type of resources and opportunities are there for
Gigi Johnson:people who want to get involved in the next few years?
Alfredo Munoz:So there are two options. One of them is
Alfredo Munoz:connected to the digital twin on the simulation onn Mars. We are
Alfredo Munoz:looking to expand the community, we are looking for partnerships
Alfredo Munoz:about outreach. Again, for this community to actually be useful
Alfredo Munoz:to, to the Earth, we need to have a community, right?
Alfredo Munoz:Otherwise, if it's just a few 1000 people, we will not be able
Alfredo Munoz:to simulate a lot of the opportunities that we will have
Alfredo Munoz:in the future on Mars. So growing the community and
Alfredo Munoz:creating partnerships, that they provide a higher outreach on how
Alfredo Munoz:to grow that community is something that we will always be
Alfredo Munoz:looking forward. The other side is on the architectural front.
Alfredo Munoz:Again, in ABIBOO Studio, we do a lot of projects, from
Alfredo Munoz:residential to large settlements to temporary structures. So
Alfredo Munoz:obviously, anyone that is interested into looking for
Alfredo Munoz:innovation in a more traditional physical environment, we will be
Alfredo Munoz:happy to help as well.
Gigi Johnson:Could it . . . . could whole groups come to the
Gigi Johnson:table? Could a group of high schools come in and have high
Gigi Johnson:schoolers do programs around and explorations, you know, in this
Gigi Johnson:space? Could you know groups of educators, groups of physical
Gigi Johnson:scientists come in as a group and engage with this?
Alfredo Munoz:Totally. The vision of the Futureverse is to
Alfredo Munoz:combine the communities that sometimes they don't interact
Alfredo Munoz:among themselves. So education is very important. Science,
Alfredo Munoz:artists, gamers, investors, people that are very involved
Alfredo Munoz:with the latest technologies in crypto blockchain -- all of
Alfredo Munoz:those communities sometimes operate in silos or very focused
Alfredo Munoz:into their interest. But what we are doing here is to merge them
Alfredo Munoz:together into a platform or into an environment that we think
Alfredo Munoz:will allow to cross pollinate. And that's one of the core ideas
Alfredo Munoz:and core visions that we have. I mean, from my personal
Alfredo Munoz:experience, cross pollination is the most important tool that we
Alfredo Munoz:have as innovators, right? So the moment that we start merging
Alfredo Munoz:communities that have different interests, different expertise,
Alfredo Munoz:different backgrounds, new interesting ideas start to come
Alfredo Munoz:up. So, for sure, educators, again, scientists, artists,
Alfredo Munoz:investors, people that are in the gaming or in the
Alfredo Munoz:entertainment field, the communicators, influencers in
Alfredo Munoz:YouTube or like any other channel, where like, like, like
Alfredo Munoz:you will have a key role into . . . in their insights and their
Alfredo Munoz:ideas about how to create a new society. Again, all of these --
Alfredo Munoz:you are using Mara as an excuse. And yes, we definitely see that
Alfredo Munoz:all of the learning that we're putting together will actually
Alfredo Munoz:be implemented on Mars -- we are very optimistic. But the core
Alfredo Munoz:here is, how can we all create a new society? If we have to do it
Alfredo Munoz:right this time. We have done a lot of things, right? We have
Alfredo Munoz:done some mistakes. What about if now, we start from ground up.
Alfredo Munoz:And with the knowledge that we have of centuries and centuries
Alfredo Munoz:as a community, we try to create everything from scratch for
Alfredo Munoz:entire society, that they not only tries to overcome some of
Alfredo Munoz:the social inequalities that we are seeing that is growing in
Alfredo Munoz:today's world, but also it connected to climate change and
Alfredo Munoz:to growth and to thriving as an individual, right? And working
Alfredo Munoz:together. Again, I was talking before Mars will not be able to,
Alfredo Munoz:we will not survive on Mars if we don't work together. So we
Alfredo Munoz:will need to transcend who we are as individuals in order to
Alfredo Munoz:create a new society on Mars. And the question is, maybe
Alfredo Munoz:that's not a bad place to come if we want to evolve our society
Alfredo Munoz:on Earth. So anyone that is optimistic, optimistic about the
Alfredo Munoz:future, that wants to bring their ideas and expertise and
Alfredo Munoz:passion, about things that could be better in our society can
Alfredo Munoz:definitely jump into providing those ideas and insights on how
Alfredo Munoz:to create a new society. And again, Mars is a great place to
Alfredo Munoz:test things out.
Gigi Johnson:Wow, what an adventure.
Alfredo Munoz:In this environment. I mean, once . . .
Gigi Johnson:Yeah, I was gonna say that, that, that depending
Gigi Johnson:on who you are, you probably listen to this and go, "Wow,
Gigi Johnson:I've been trapped in COVID in my house for how long and I'm going
Gigi Johnson:to be doing what on Mars?" or "Oh my gosh, I would love to,
Gigi Johnson:you know, you know, this is a much better idea than going on a
Gigi Johnson:fishing boat. Maybe I can make my fortune going to Mars!" So I
Gigi Johnson:think you're gonna have a wide variety of people who think this
Gigi Johnson:is an interesting exploration. And then when you actually go to
Gigi Johnson:fund this thing, or someone goes to fund the learnings from this.
Gigi Johnson:There's a whole another set of where people can go to
Gigi Johnson:experience their next Adventure? Or just sort of thinking of this
Gigi Johnson:is something you do for six months and come back? Or because
Gigi Johnson:of gravitational issues that you'd be changed, right? So
Gigi Johnson:you'd come back a physically changed person.
Gigi Johnson:We could probably talk for a long time on this. We've talked
Gigi Johnson:for a while - what have we not mentioned that you would want to
Gigi Johnson:say before we finish up our conversation today?
Alfredo Munoz:So I got connected maybe with what I just
Alfredo Munoz:mentioned about cross pollination. And I had been very
Alfredo Munoz:fortunate that I have been able to live in many countries, I
Alfredo Munoz:lived the Middle East, I lived in India, I lived in Japan, I
Alfredo Munoz:lived in Europe, obviously, where I'm from, I live here in
Alfredo Munoz:the US. And that gave me great admiration for the different
Alfredo Munoz:cultures and for respecting different opinions. And I would
Alfredo Munoz:connect that to other fields as well. We are usually very good
Alfredo Munoz:in some things. But by bringing other experts and other fields
Alfredo Munoz:that might be very different to ours. From my experience over
Alfredo Munoz:the years, it actually allows to bring powerful insights that we
Alfredo Munoz:would not have got otherwise. So cross pollinating, bringing
Alfredo Munoz:diversity of genders, of ideas, of cultures, with respect for
Alfredo Munoz:others points of view. And by bringing in experts in
Alfredo Munoz:completely different fields into the same environment and
Alfredo Munoz:ecosystem is probably from what I have found in my personal life
Alfredo Munoz:to be extremely insightful and enriching not only as a creator,
Alfredo Munoz:but also as a person, right?
Alfredo Munoz:So I would invite anyone to try to force themselves to think out
Alfredo Munoz:of the box. I like to say that everyone should be an immigrant
Alfredo Munoz:at least once in a culture that is very, very different to ours,
Alfredo Munoz:because that automatically puts you in a completely new mindset,
Alfredo Munoz:and forces you to request in a lot of the things that you think
Alfredo Munoz:you know, and that is very relevant to creativity, right?
Alfredo Munoz:So in that sense, I think that's very important.
Alfredo Munoz:Secondly, I would like to add anyone that they might be very
Alfredo Munoz:interested into bringing ideas connected to creativity, to try
Alfredo Munoz:to surround yourself with good mentors. And I was very
Alfredo Munoz:fortunate when I was very young, to be in the architectural field
Alfredo Munoz:working with some of the best architects of the end of the
Alfredo Munoz:20th century, the guy that won the equivalent of the Nobel
Alfredo Munoz:Prize in architecture, the former head of Harvard, he is
Alfredo Munoz:the some the biggest architectural firm in the US. So
Alfredo Munoz:Alfredo, it's been great having your really different nexus of
Alfredo Munoz:that allowed me to, by almost osmosis, be close to great
Alfredo Munoz:talent, not only as a mentor, but also in the colleagues,
Alfredo Munoz:right? And creating that environment of a creativity is
Alfredo Munoz:so important. There is this book called The Medici effect, right
Alfredo Munoz:about why in the Renaissance, there was so much innovation and
Alfredo Munoz:had to do with Florence and how different fields were in the
Alfredo Munoz:same environment. And I think Silicon Valley has been a lot
Alfredo Munoz:about that, over the last 30 years, right? Like so many
Alfredo Munoz:different people from different backgrounds, providing ideas on
Alfredo Munoz:different fields. So I would, and that's what we're
Alfredo Munoz:envisioning, with, with the futures again, creating an
Alfredo Munoz:ecosystem where people from completely different backgrounds
Alfredo Munoz:that might have the opportunity to either provide mentorship or
Alfredo Munoz:learn from others and experience from more experienced people or
Alfredo Munoz:people that are more already established in their field to
Alfredo Munoz:create a community that is about inclusion and about ideas and
Alfredo Munoz:all debate as well because again, we cannot build a society
Alfredo Munoz:without debate. And being righteous is something that they
Alfredo Munoz:won't work in order to create innovation.
Alfredo Munoz:architecture and outer space, though very intertwined, as
Alfredo Munoz:you're talked about on the show.
Gigi Johnson:How can people reach out to you and what do you
Gigi Johnson:need right now?
Alfredo Munoz:Yeah, so basically, anyone that is
Alfredo Munoz:interested in being involved for participating can reach out at
Alfredo Munoz:Onteco.com or at ABIBOO.com, A-B-I-B-O-O.com. Or Onteco. And
Alfredo Munoz:then reach out, let us know how we can be of service, how we can
Alfredo Munoz:be of help, and you want to be involved. Please, we would love
Alfredo Munoz:to, because again, in order to make this happen, especially
Alfredo Munoz:visualize and to create a new society, we need a lot of minds
Alfredo Munoz:that they want to participate with optimism, and with passion
Alfredo Munoz:about how we can all together make the world a better place
Alfredo Munoz:here and on Mars. But let's start with Mars so we can bring
Alfredo Munoz:it to Earth. So Mars in the digital environment, then to
Alfredo Munoz:Earth and back to Mars in the near future.
Gigi Johnson:Excellent. And we'll have all this in the show
Gigi Johnson:notes and thank you for bringing your adventure to our adventure.
Alfredo Munoz:Thank you. Thank you so much. It has been a great